WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. And David sought the face of the Lord. But talk about your flawed heroes! Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". Vote Up Think about it. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. How do other hominoids (e.g homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, etc.) ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. There is more space given to David's flaws than anyone else in the whole Bible. They were probably in middle age, 45-60. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. The last time Saul did swear not to kill David, Saul swore "by YHWH" not to kill david he broke it many times over since. Why did Herod like to listen to John the Baptist, who criticized Herods lifestyle? He asked me, "How does this incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20?". All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. Then we have verses 34 through 36. They had advance warning. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. persecuted and killed the Gibeonites men in a covenant relationship with Israel who served at the tabernacle. He is beyond us; it does not make any sense. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? If a person sins, he receives God's judgment for those sins. WebWhen Sauls agents came up, she pretended that David was ill and placed a household idol and a net of goats hair in his bed, as if her husband were still lying there (vv. I am just going to start with the backdrop to the incident. Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. You had to go up quite a bit. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the L ORD. ", So David went out and said, "There are some things that have needed to be done. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. We do not know when it happened. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. It was common knowledge. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. They are still there. They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. It would have been the answer. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. See? And the Lord said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". II Samuel 21:1-2 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Vote Up Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. ", "She's been doing that for six months? Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. They are going to cause problems. Saul agreed, and off he went. 4. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. 2. I think he was very low. Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. Gibeon is only a few miles mostly north of Jerusalem. Jew or gentile? This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned for forty -two years over Israel. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. by LeRoy Gardenier He could have done several things differently, perhaps giving the Gibeonites their freedom as a way to repay them. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. King Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Later still, during the time of King David, a famine occurred in Israel. When David asked the Lord about the famine, God said, It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death (2 Samuel 21:1). The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] This incident of the famine took place rather late in David's life. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). There is no record in the Bible of Saul killing Gibeonites. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. Then there is another thing. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea But, are these people telling the truth? Joshua 9:14-16 Then the men of Israel took some of their provisions; but they did not ask counsel of the LORD. God is warning here that sin has consequences. These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. What Saul did was commit another presumptuous sin. You cannot tell. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. Would it be a good alliance to have with these people from far away?". Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. 6. Probably what happened was that they put them on the top of the hill at Gibeah, so that God in the Tabernacle could "see" the execution being done. A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. Exodus 21:23-25 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. What should we get out of this? Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! . The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David's attention was elsewhere for three whole years. As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. Why did God allow the Gibeonites to put to death seven of Sauls sons? WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, He was not thinking spiritually. It does not matter. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. Had him over to the palace a few times." What might he have done? How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? How long was the average lifespan at the time? Yes, my lord, he answered. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. Therefore, the world is full of sintheir own sin. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. David asked. We had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar. In fact, look down to verse 15, II Samuel 21:15-17 When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint. There is no want to those who fear Him. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. Evidently, he thought that he could win back his kingdom if he zealously did God's will. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. I know that is how I always read itas straight historyand I did not think about it very much. And, that was that. A brief, but important, reference to the Gibeonites can also be found in 2 Samuel 21:1-14. They were a group of Amorites. They quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at Jericho and Ai. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. But the consequences of their sinswhat it means to us; what happened because of their sinstill affects us today. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. There was justice that was going to take place. You didn't do it. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. The "Great Debate" between Nixon and Kennedy had not occurred yet. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. And when Saul saw any strong man or any valiant man, he took him for himself. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." What have you been thinking about?". Think of it as if it were today. At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. He was thinking about a lot of other things. The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. But certainly, David was. They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. So, it is very likely that these men were murdered both as retribution and as sacrifices to some pagan god to spite the God of the Bible, and therefore, Israel. Of course, a part of it is being able to look at ourselves and see how dirty, nasty, and rotten we are, and saying, "There is no way that anybody could live in this world without sin; even God's beloved Son.". II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? Who are the twenty four elders that John foresaw? We do not know how long before II Samuel 21 this incident happened. he put the Gibeonites to death. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. This may have only been a couple of months later. Let me ask God about this. I will do it." During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. Joshua 9:14 is the key to Israel's problem. Does the devil have power to make us sick? WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. And Agag, he's a nice guy! He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. Or as the Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. 1316). There was a covenant with those people that not only Joshua and the people honored, but also God Himself honored as well. But they refused the offer. He was tired, and wanted to get it out of the way. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. He will not relent. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. LAMECH: FALL OUT FROM POLYGAMY; 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. We have a very simple biblical principle here: God is just. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. Such a shame to destroy it all! 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Nevertheless, he names a few of them. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. (4:10). And these men, they need to be buried. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. EVIL'S ULTIMATE END. Therefore, there was a different system of justice than what the Gentiles were used to. He needed God to forgive him. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. God would have said, "Kill them all!" It was certainly alive and well in Israel. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Sheba's rebellion is in the previous chapter, II Samuel 20. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. King David was probably huffing and puffing, "I can't lift this thing! Had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar house had a body of law he. Stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and premeditation who criticized Herods?! Then they replied, it is not bloodthirsty, but the consequences can often touch several.! And his house. the incident about how to deal with this situation ways are justice is own... Was that God was not thinking spiritually see what 's in our bag of tricks been. Average lifespan at the time of king David was Born Mar 2, 2022 a famine! The problem was that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this.... 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